The Ole Ball Game

Run scores before third out

by Gord
(Whitecourt, Alberta, Canada)

Force At First

Force At First

Gord asked: Runners on 1 and 3 with one out.


Deep fly ball hit to center, runner at 3 waits, runner at 1 takes off.

Ball is caught for out 2, runner at 3 takes off for home, other runner has to run back to 1st.

Runner at 3 scores before throw comes to 1st, where previous runner has not made it back yet, for out # 3.

Does run score and which rule applies as technically, the third out was forced.


Rick answered Gord, thank you for your question.

Rule 5.08 How a Run Scores

a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first base, second base, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning.

Exception: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made:

1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base

2) Or, by any runner being forced out

3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases

Even though the runner from third legally tagged, ran on the catch in the outfield, and scored before the out was recorded on the runner who went back to tag, that runner from first base becomes a force out, for out number 3.


Yours in baseball,

Rick

Comments for Run scores before third out

Average Rating starstarstarstarstar

Click here to add your own comments

Jul 08, 2019
Rating
starstarstarstarstar
Run scores before third out- Not a Force out NEW
by: Anonymous

Rick, you are great and smart but I agree with the others that the runner on first who did not tag up on the fly ball is not a force out when he gets tagged before touching first base again. A force out is when one is forced to go the next later base (2nd base for the runner on first). Since this was a fly ball then the runner on 1st base is not forced or required to run to second base because he cannot go to 2nd base if the ball is caught unless he tags from 1st base after the catch. So he can just stay on 1st base if he wants until the ball is caught. He is not required to step of off 1st base (as long as the batter does not touch 1st at same time). After the ball is caught the batter runner it out and that removed any duty to go to 2nd base if the ball was not caught. So tagging the runner going back to 1st base is not a force out. He was not forced to leave 1st base until the ball hit the ground which it never did. So the run counts since it scored before the tag on the runner at 1st.

I saw a Rule that stated this plainly. In Rule 2.00 under "Force Play" and "Comment / Example" it states:
"Example: Not a force out. One out. Runner on first and third. Batter flies out. Two out. Runner on third tags up and scores. Runner on first tries to retouch before throw from fielder reaches first baseman, but does not get back in time and is out. Three outs. If, in umpire’s judgment, the runner from third touched home before the ball was held at first base, the run counts."
This is the exact situation as the question and it states it is NOT a force out and the run counts if made before the 3rd out tag at first. Although the runner at 1st is "forced" to go back to first, that is not the meaning of a "force out" which means go to the next base because the runner behind you is coming to your base.

Apr 13, 2018
Rating
starstarstarstarstar
tagging up is not a force play NEW
by: Carl Moore

You have runner tagging up at 3rd and reaching home plate before the runner from 1st is out (before tagging up). Even though that runner is out by throwing to 1st base before he tags up at that base, that is not a force, and the run counts.

There was a case in the majors of sacrifice fly double play. The runner from 1st was seen running toward 3rd, having thought there were 2 out at time of pitch (there was only 1 out). So he was an easy out (get the ball to 1st base), but the sacrifice fly & run counted.

Jul 12, 2017
Rating
starstarstarstarstar
Runner From First
by: Rick, theoleballgame

The runner from first ran because the batter put the ball in play, thus he must vacate first base at that point. It wouldn't be voluntary.

The ball is live off the bat, the defense has a force play, if they get the ball to first base before the runner from first is able to get back.

If the runner had reached first before the ball, he would be safe. There would be no appeal, as that runner could go as far as he wanted to, and still return to first.

If he touched second and rounded it, he would be required to retouch second on his way back. Failure to do so would be a case for appeal, if he managed to get back before the ball.


Yours in baseball,

Rick

Jul 12, 2017
Rating
starstarstarstarstar
Runner At First Nt Tagging Up On 2nd Out
by: Anonymous

According to the rule the runner at 1st "failed to touch a base" before the base was tagged on the appeal. In this situation he is forced to retouch the base but the rule simply states he must touch the base and while it is not maybe technically a "force" play the runner on first gave up his legal right to be on first base by his failure to tag and the base (1st base) was tagged by the defense before he could re-establish his legal right to be at first.

Jul 11, 2017
Rating
starstarstarstarstar
But didn't the baserunner on first run by choice.
by: Anonymous

I'm not sure you are right Rick as the runner on first was safe at the initiation of the play so his movement towards second was voluntary and not forced so the out at first was an appeal play not a forced play. Isn't a live ball or dead ball appeal play the same? This is a tricky one.

Click here to add your own comments

Join in and write your own page! It's easy to do. How? Simply click here to return to Ask The Baseball Coach.








Spalding, Old Time Bat Display



[?] Subscribe To This Site

XML RSS
follow us in feedly
Add to My Yahoo!
Add to My MSN
Subscribe with Bloglines


Louisville Sluggers. 1920's































Return to top | Homepage | Contact Rick | About Us | Site Dedications | Site Origin | Resource | Privacy Policy |

Powered By Site Build It!

Copyright© 2007-2018...theoleballgame.com. All Rights Reserved.
Copyright© 2007-2018...theoleballgame.com. All Rights Reserved.